Why is it that "pit bull" bashers spout off about facts and statistics?

yet NEVER produce any? They don't even understand that a "pit bull" is not a breed but rather a term that refers to more than one breed (I won't say which one's... maybe some basher can do some research and enlighten me)





PLEASE feel free to bash this (ahem) breed... and provide some statistics (from reliable sources of course) while you do!

Why is it that "pit bull" bashers spout off about facts and statistics?
I'm not a basher.





But I can provide some statistics.





here are fatal dog attack stats listed by state:


http://www.nationalcanineresearchcouncil...





here are some case studies that provide more of the story than you will hear in the news:


http://www.nationalcanineresearchcouncil...





there is lots more info on that site if you want to look around.











here are some temperament stats of the pass rates of certain breeds in temperament tests in 07:





(most common breeds considered "pit bull types"):


BULL TERRIER: 91.5%


STAFFORDSHIRE BULL TERRIER: 85.2%


AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER: 84.1%


AMERICAN STAFFORDSHIRE TERRIER: 83.9%








other popular breeds that had lower passing percentages:


GOLDEN RETRIEVER: 83.8%


COCKER SPANIEL: 81.7%


JACK RUSSELL TERRIER: 81.5%


GREYHOUND: 81.0%


COLLIE: 79.2%


SHIH TZU: 76.9%


CHIHUAHUA: 71.4%


STANDARD SCHNAUZER: 66.1%


SHIBA INU: 65.2%





-http://www.atts.org/











Heres something else you might find interesting:





On Aug. 18, a 70-year-old man was hospitalized in critical condition after being attacked by a Labrador mix. When police arrived, the dog charged one of the officers and was shot. The incident was reported in only one article and just in a local newspaper.





On Aug. 19, a mixed breed dog attacked a 16-month-old child; the child died as a result of head and neck injuries. The attack was reported just twice and just in a local paper.





On Aug. 20, a mixed breed dog attacked a 6-year-old boy, tore off his ear and left severe bite wounds on his head. The incident was reported once and just in a local paper.





On Aug. 21, a 59-year-old woman was attacked by two pit bulls who entered her home through a dog door. The woman was hospitalized with severe injuries. Although certainly serious and not to be minimized, the attack was reported much differently that the other incidents. The Council found that the incident was reported in over 230 articles in both national and international papers. The story was also picked up and aired on major news networks, including CNN, FOX and MSNBC.





Using these four examples, Karen Delise, a researcher for the Council, concludes that "a fatal attack by an unremarkable breed is not nearly as newsworthy as a non-fatal attack by a Pit bull." -


http://www.associatedcontent.com/article...
Reply:They're on the defensive and know it, mostly.





While some well bred dogs are very nice, the vast majority of pit bulls are handled by owners who have no idea how to handle or train a dog, much less one with aggressive tendancies who need to know who the pack leader is as well as how to be socialized into the family.





I've seen some very sweet ones, and some extremely aggressive ones that would attack children if they could get at them. My next door neighbor was keeping 2 in his back yard for a friend who was looking for an apartment that would allow dogs. I parked and got out of my car, and was immediately rushed by both dogs soon as my foot was on the ground--thank goodness for the chain link fence. From their attitude I had to defuse that fast, so I calmly walked inside the house, got 6 oatmeal raisin cookies and went back out, said some quiet words, frisbee threw each cookie in different directions and then went back inside.





The next day they rushed the fence again, but less aggressively. I got 6 more cookies, took my time with tossing them in. The unfixed male was ready to savage his sister to get hers, so I made sure his went way to the other end of the yard. SHE was nice, was calm and making kissy face to me (those pursed lips) but he was a harder sell.





Third day, I just said hi to them and when they saw no cookies were coming, they ignored me after that. But I knew bettter than to touch them, to hand them the food (no I normally don't feed someone else's dogs but this was a safety issue), and no fast moves or loud voice.
Reply:According to the AVMA, there is no accurate statistical information on the breakdown of bites. The reason for this is it would require scientific analysis, verification of dog breeds/mixes. AVMA knows this because they are keenly aware of how there are reports of "Pit Bull" or "Pit Bull Type" dog bites where dogs are identified according to the witness statements which are not always accurate and could include a large number of breeds or mixes.


In fact, I noticed a very publicised case in my city where the headline was "Pit Bull Kills Owner" and the dogs involved (three dogs) first of all probably reacted to the owner having passed out and then died. She was on a diabetic pump and had taken the dogs out at around 2 am and was discovered around 5 to 6 am, surrounded by the three dogs. None of them was an American Pit Bull Terrier or even a mixture of that breed. The one the police shot and killed as it approached them was a Catahoula/American Bulldog mix. Later when coroner reports (which weren't published) were completed the Golden Retriever was put to death (indicating suspected fatal bite wound from it.) and the other dog, that looked like a border collie mix or something, was labelled a dangerous dog (which would indicate it wounded her). The family felt the dogs did not attack the woman and it was later determined they likely bit her after she passed out from her diabetes. Maybe they had tried to move her. I don't know. But before there was even an investigation and EVEN WELL AFTER THE NEWS CHANNEL WAS AWARE THAT NO PIT BULL was involved in the incident, they continued to air reports and have reports on their internet site and on later news, with the banner "Pit Bull Kills Owner". That is one clear example of mis-identification that I have first hand knowledge of because of e-mail exchange with a station editor.


Then the local newspaper picked up the story and without investigating anything, reported the mis-information again.


So pit bull bashers don't have solid stats to work with.


That sure doesn't mean a pit bull can't attack or hasn't attacked, but I wonder where all the reports are on Labrador Retrievers? (Just to name another breed that is big, strong and has bitten/mauled/killed) I certainly wouldn't want to see that breed banned, but picking on one breed or a small number of large or powerful breeds to ban is as ridiculous as it would be to ban Labs.


Death by dog is extremely rare. Maulings by dog are rare. But media is selective and misleading with what the choose to publicise and how they do it. Death by parent is far, far more common and documented in courts of law.
Reply:I was just discussing this with a friend today.





The biggest problem with the statistics is that they only tell part of the story. Yes, I can find numbers of how many of whatever breed attacked and/or killed someone. But that isn't the entire story. The numbers that are harder to find are the ones that tell you how many of the same breed don't attack.





For example (and I am just making up numbers here) if 450 pitbulls attacked, and there are 4,500,000 pitbulls owned in the US, then you are only dealing with an attack rate of 0.01%. Then you look at something like a Cocker Spaniel that had only 25 attacks during the same year. However, there are only 100,000 of that breed in the US. Then you are dealing with an attack rate of 0.025%. This would be more than twice the rate of the pitbull. (Again, fake number used for example purposes.)





Getting the numbers for how many of any specific breeds in this country is difficult to estimate. I believe that if you actually had them, you would be shocked to find what type of dogs would have the largest bite percentage!
Reply:I pass on bashing the innocent dogs and bash on irresposible owners who don't teach good behavior to their dogs and don't know how to deal with dog aggression, regardless of breed!!!
Reply:I've often wondered the same thing. While I don't have an answer, I'm curious if any bashers respond. I'll be watching and hoping for some enlightenment as well. Long live pit bulls.
Reply:What types of facts and statistics are you refering to, exactly? If you want other people to be specific, then please have the courtesy to do so yourself. I would assume you're talking about the way they have of being primarily a 'ghetto' person's dog, and how they like to clamp their jaws down on faces and appendages. But then again you could be talking about weight and size or diseases they're prone to. In answer to your question on which breeds are defined under the term "pit bill" (because I don't think you really do know what they are or you would have stated, just to make your point):





Indian Bull Terrier, American Bulldog, Staffordshire Terrier and a Dogo. There's a few others, but I don't know what they are called.





And how does anyone really get their information about things happening in the world without facts? I laughed for several minutes when I read that. How dare people spout off those so-called "facts"! The nerve of us! That is why statistics are collected. Would you call people who are for creating a cure for cancer 'cancer-bashers' for reading those statistics?





PS, I own a Bull Dog named Peety. I'm not bashing the breed, but your lack of eloquent conversation.
Reply:There does happen to be a breed: The American Pit Bull Terrier.
Reply:The same can be said for pit bull supporters. I will gladly post more on this later after I get done with some r/t endeavors.


Yes heaven forbid life called me away from yahoo answers!


A small sample of information follows:


the American Staffordshire Terrier and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier -- often referred to as pit bulls -


Every 40 seconds someone in the United States seeks medical attention for a dog bite-related injury.


Dog attacks cause 4.5 million injuries annually, 800,000 of which require medical attention.


At least 25 different breeds of dogs have been involved in the 238 dog bite-related fatalities in the United States.


Pit bulls and rottweilers account for over half of these deaths.


(OVER HALF)


http://www.americanhumane.org/site/PageS...








The following is a news article from this year that tells about a woman who had pits come INTO HER HOUSE AND ATTACK


http://www.kirotv.com/news/13951853/deta...
Reply:Dear the breed IS called an AMERICAN PITBULL TERRIER. Pitbull is just the short name like rottie for Rotweiller.





You need to do a little bit of reaserch yourself.





BTW BSL laws are not always toward pitbulls they pertain to other dogs too such as Rotweillers and Akitas.
Reply:The presa canario is a breed commonly mistaken for a "pitbull" as is the boxer - in fact, statistics show that boxers are mistaken for "pitbulls" quite often. Many times the dog that bites is actually a mix - sure it might contain "pitbull" in it, but there are hundreds of mixes that contain other dogs that bite people. In dog class the other day, one of the people said that my dog looks like he has "pitbull" in him - that was only after he snapped at her dog. My dog is a lab shepherd husky mix!!





The pitbull actually encompasses more than 3 breeds, you listed the Am Staff, the APBT, and the staffy bull, but don't forget about the bull terrier -and did you know that some people even think bulldogs are "pitbulls"!!





When you see bite statistics - reference the CDC bite statistics, did you know that pitbulls are listed as "pitbull" types, which means that bull terriers, Am Staffs, APBT, and Staffy bulls are all grouped together?? Therefore of COURSE it looks like this dog has the most bites - you just took 4 breeds and smooshed them together!!





Here are some stats for you.





Lightening kills more people than "pitbulls" do (around 65 people a year





Parents kill more children than pitbulls do





Guns kill more people than pitbulls do





Knives kill more people than pitbulls





Drunk drivers kill more people than pitbulls





Heart attacks, heart disease, breast cancer, alzheimers, swimming pools, sharks, fast food, christ I bet more people die walking to their mailbox than are killed by pitbulls





But hey - let's legislate dogs instead of real killers.
Reply:fear and ignorance, i have two pits and they are the sweetest dogs, my pekingese is the crazy one, and they put up with her and love her as much as any dog could.
Reply:Being a friend of Geoff's, I have got to reply. FIRST of all, he wasn't making any claims. He was asking you what kind of statistics you were looking for, giving his own assumptions on what it is that you may be refering to, which you still haven't stated. SECOND, he was correct in the breeds which are considered pittbulls. You were incorrect. There are not just 3 breeds only that are considered pittbulls. There are several. Perhaps instead of giving you sources, I can tell you to look them up yourself 'to do some research and enlighten me'. But I will give you some sources from my own collection. How about:





"Pit Bulls for Dummies" by D. Caroline Coile


"The Pit Bull Placebo: The Media, Myths and Politics of Canine Aggression" by Karen Delise





2 sources will have to be enough for you. And I don't remember the pages. Like he said, he wasn't bashing the breed. He owns one of them. I own the mother. I get a feel from you that you like to try and be superior to others, and that's just not flattering.





THIRD, he also wasn't saying that the only people who own 'pit bulls' are ghetto. He was saying that it's common myth and was saying that could be one of the statistics you may have been referring to.
Reply:Im not a basher, but I do believe in the responsibility of ownership of animals. Pits get a bad rap because of the culture we live in. I volunteered for 4 years at a humane society and I can tell you for a fact that we got three times as many reports of pitt bull bites than from any other breed. Also, most of the dogs that went unadopted resembled pitts. Because of their jaw size/strength, they are dangerous animals. You cant deny that. But they arent just crazy. Good obedience training can change the demeanor of those dogs drastically. However, I can also tell you from my time at the society that about half of our cases involving pitts began with the words, "he just snapped." And those were usually caring owners who said that and were calling for advise when their dog bit.
Reply:Most people are like sheep, or cows...they follow whoever is in front of them and very few stray away to find a path of their own, whether it be pit bashing, or designer dog hunting.
Reply:Unfortunatley, pit bulls aren't the only breed that people tend to bash, but also Rottweilers, German Shepards and Chows. Because, pit bulls tend to make the news for maulings and such they get a bad rap and people tend to spout off negative remarks without doing their research. My family is on our second Chow, and we have received negative comments by visitors about how they can be "mean". Our first chow died at 13 years old and now we have a puppy, they are big babies. I think how dogs are raised determines their personalities NOT the breed. Granted some breeds are known to be protectors of their families, but how you play with them and treat them can determine their temprement.
Reply:Here are some stats for you. Enjoy.





Pit bull attack stats may surprise you





Thursday, July 07, 2005








Last week, I received a phone call from someone wanting to know the truth behind pit bull statistics. And, on June 12, in a letter to the editor, a reader wrote about his fear of pit bulls. He said, "These dogs have killed more than 100 individuals in the past five years. If an automobile had a defect that killed 100 people, there would be a public outcry."





After you start looking a little deeper, the numbers tell a different tale. According to "Fatal Dog Attacks, the Stories Behind the Statistics," by Karen Delise there were 431 deaths because of dog attacks in the years from 1965 to 2001. Children 12 younger were the victims in 79 percent of the fatal attacks.





In 37 years, 342 children were killed by dogs, an average of about nine children a year. Shockingly, approximately three children are killed each day, or 1,100 per year, by their parents. Delise notes that "A child in the United States is over 100 times more likely to be killed by his or her parent or caretaker than by a dog."





Even more surprising is that approximately 50 infants die each year from broken baby cribs, and 250 newborns die at the hands of their parents or guardians. In comparison, two infants, on average, die a year from dog attacks.





Pit bull and pit mixes account for 21 percent of all human fatalities, while mixed breed dogs account for 16 percent and other nonspecified breeds, 15 percent. Delise's study demonstrates that the breed of dog should not be the sole factor by which an attack is judged. Other factors include inherited and learned behaviors, genetics, breeding, temperament, surgical sterilization, environmental stresses, owner responsibility, victim behavior, size and age, timing, and the physical condition and the size of dog.





Of the 28 dogs responsible for a fatal attack between 2000 and 2001, 26 were males and two were females. Of the 26 males, 21 were sexually intact; the reproductive status of the remaining five male dogs could not be determined. The male dog that killed the 12-year-old boy in San Francisco on June 3 was protecting his female dog in heat.





An owner's understanding of dogs, supervision of dogs and children, sterilization and chaining as a primary means of confinement all can play roles in attacks. Whether dogs were obtained for protection, guarding, fighting, are newly acquired or not properly introduced to newborns are among other issues.





In the end, many factors contribute to dog attacks. A popular slogan seems to capture the sentiment perfectly, "Judge the Deed Not the Breed."








- Laura Maloney

dr teeth